From: Grrrrrl Power
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 11:30 PM
I cannot believe they actually impeached clinton.
From: Cicero
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 11:42 PM
On 12/11/98 11:30:17 PM, Grrrrrl Power wrote:
>I cannot believe they actually >impeached clinton.
You can't? I can. In the first place, it's a case of hubris: Clinton's slick as hell, but he should have taken the written questions more seriously. I can't say I'm terribly sorry for him.
In the second place, the Repubs had no choice but to impeach. Clinton has so thoroughly (and delightfully, imo) dodged every bullet the Repubs have fired at him that they are almost honor bound to fire the 105 mm howitzer at him... even if it misses.
The impeachment will succeed only in making Clinton look like an poor little underdog. He will make the most out of it. But fear not, my conservative brethren and sistren. Bill Clinton's going to get his, big time, from his long-suffering wife. I have to admit I'm kinda looking forward to it myself.
From: Grrrrrl Power
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 05:44 AM
No, I can believe it, I was just so happy that it finally happened. Now on to step two of removing him...
Colors of the world, spice up your life, every boy and every girl, spice up your life, people of the world, spice up your life!
From: Sarah
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 08:37 AM
You're never going to get him removed. He's already lame duck. And do we really think That Gore is completely ready to take over? All we have to do is look at Ford's term of office.....
From: ArTiFiCiaL_HaPp|NeSs
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 08:41 AM
and republicans might not want gore in office, not because some ppl think he sucks, but because if he does a good job, it's going to highly increase his chances in the election.
From: Seth
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 09:03 AM
I really think it's sad that the two major parties are so concerned with furthering their own party. If they impeach Clinton it should be because they feel it will benefit the nation, not because it will deliver a blow to the domocrats.
From: ArTiFiCiaL_HaPp|NeSs
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 12:18 PM
i don't really see how it would benifit the nation, or how it would hurt the nation if he wasn't impeached. i think that if he is impeached it should be to set an example that he can't get away with things just because he's president. if we don't then we're setting a horrible precedent.
From: Seth
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 05:04 PM
Setting a precedent is good, but I just think that the primary reason that the impeachment papers passed in the house is to hurt the democrats. I think I read that the vote was split down party lines. That makes it look like a partisan thing to me.
From: ArTiFiCiaL_HaPp|NeSs
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 05:20 PM
that's very true. but whatever the reason, if they let him off the hook, they are setting a very bad example.
From: Sarah
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 10:50 PM
No they're not. Nixon jepardized our nation, Clinton was just stupid. Our country is at an all-over high. What do you think will happen if we stop that on purpose? Let's just say that I'm pulling my money out of the stock market. And it might get as bad as that I can kiss my financial aid goodbye too, because that's what Ashcroft's pushing right now. Of course, he calls it tax cuts...but that's what the Republicans always call it. That, or porn....
From: ArTiFiCiaL_HaPp|NeSs
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 11:07 PM
okay, not a bad example, but a bad precedent, do you really think it should be allowed for a president to commit perjury? what the hell kind of example is that setting for our nation, not just within the nation, but he is the person that represents us world wide, it's pretty sad when someone can say "hey look, that's the guy who's in charge so he can bend the rules, that's a great country." nixon paid his dues.
From: Tyler
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 10:58 AM
yeah but look what he was lying about, if he wants to lie about his sex life let him do it, everyone else does.
From: ArTiFiCiaL_HaPp|NeSs
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 12:12 PM
i completely agree with that. but he shouldn't have done so under oath. that's the only thing that i think is wrong with what he did. it doesn't bother me the least that he had an affair.
From: Tyler
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 06:58 PM
what's an oath? who cares if it's under oath or not, lying's lying one way or the other, i personally don't give a shit. about the sex or the lies under oath. if i see another pic of monica on tv or on a mag i'm going to puke. uck, it's all just a waste of time, look at all the stuff that needs to be done, and we worry about this? slap the guy on the wrist and let's move on.
From: ArTiFiCiaL_HaPp|NeSs
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 07:21 PM
well, if breaking an oath isn't a big deal, then why should we punish murderer's, in concept it's the same principle. lieing is against most ppl's morals, so is murder. both are illegal. why make exceptions?
From: Sarah
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 09:50 PM
Everyone Lies. It's human nature; like a defense mechanism; self preservation. Murder is usually not a defense mechanism these days. And most people do not commit murder. It's repulsive. Lying is usually not replusive. Plus, if you lie, there's very little risk of them dying. Murder's another story. That's the difference.
From: ArTiFiCiaL_HaPp|NeSs
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 09:52 PM
but the principality of the similarities was all that i was going for. there's a difference between lying under oath and lying to someone saying that you like their hat
From: Seth
Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 12:40 AM
Holy cow, I can't believe you guys are saying that there is nothing wrong with the President lying like that, under oath or not. I personally would like to think of the President as someone that I can believe what he's saying. Now I know there are government secrets that need to be kept, but this is something totally different. Had Clinton admitted his wrong in the first place and sincerely apologized I would have a very high opinion of him, but his attempts to cover it up demonstrate a lack of remorse and that he values his own reputation more than the trust of those who put him in office. If he lied once, what would stop him from doing it again and again, maybe next time about something much more important. I just don't understand.
By the way, whether or not you care if he lied, perjury is still a crime, and no one is above the law in this country.
From: Cicero
Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 02:04 AM
Your argument is well put. Although I voted for Clinton both in 92 and 96, I don't think I would vote for him again even if he ran for dogcatcher. He's dropped drastically in my estimation. Still, I also believe he's doing a good job as Chief Executive.
Now take Jimmy Carter. He was and is an admirable, honorable human being, but at the same time he was the weakest Chief Executive this country has had over the last 50 years.
It's not that I equate lies and deceit with a successful Presidency, but I believe the parallel is instructive. A successful Chief Executive can't always deal in truths and the high road. Reagan lied through his teeth about Iran-Contra. Nixon lied about Watergate. Kennedy's entire Presidency was a great big fat charade. For all that, though, each made his mark on America and the world.
Call me cynical if you like, but I fully expect politicians to tell lies. Big lies, little lies, lies under oath, you name it. They always have, always will. To me, it's not Clinton's lies that bother me so much as does his arrogant stupidity in getting himself into this mess.
>By the way, whether or not you care if he lied, perjury is
>still a crime, and no one is above the law in this country.
That's stretching it a bit. Money and power will still go a long way toward avoiding justice: look at the Revelle case and the case of poor JonBenet Ramsey. It will also get Clinton off the hook by and by. But perhaps I'm just being cynical again.
From: Sarah
Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 08:25 AM
Exactly my point. Politicians lie. Humans lie. You're never going to get away from it, and to waste so much money and time on this is ridiculous. The whole thing was orchestrated to take over in an election, and it backfired. Now they have to save thier hides. Not to mention all of the bullshit legislation they have passed while they keep us occupied with this crap.
From: Tyler
Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 08:42 AM
i totally agree with management n sarah. he did what anyone would do when cornered about cheating on his wife, obviously it's not the honorable thing, but how many people do you know who would admit to having an affair when accused? not many, most would try to cover it up like the prez did. does this mean that they are bad people and aren't fit to run the country? nope, they just don't like getting in trouble. he is pry guilty of illegal fundraising and a bunch of other little things too, but do i care in the least bit? nope, i don't give a shit if he takes money from china. i think that the government will be corrupt regardless, just the way it is. but it works, kind of. and does it make any difference if we nail clinton to the wall for this? is it gonna scare all the other politicians? no way, and those damn repubs keep at it. not that the dems would act any different if a repub was prez and something like this broke. so really it's just a massive waste of time and money, trying to punish one rat in room full of rats, yeah, let's do that. maybe wipe out all the rats? is that possible? pry not right now, so i think that we better just let the rats do their thing cause it does kinda work, and it's what they do.
From: Seth
Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 10:37 AM
I cannot believe all of this apathy concerning breaking the law. As chief executive officer, is it not Clinton's duty to enforce the law? That's the way I learned it in school. If he isn't following the laws himself, what is going to make him an effective enforcer of the law? It seems to me that he has failed in his chief function. He is supposed to be serving the American people, not feeding them full of a bunch of crap. I hope that if I were in his situation that I would admit my mistakes, and I hope that most other people would as well. After all, if you can't admit to your mistakes, how are you ever going to learn from them?